random parameters over whole tree

[SandroS]

is it possible to use the Random parameter in such a way as to randomise across the whole tree and not limit it to the component it is found in? for example, in the attached image i have Rnd active for the rotation of the white horn element, but it only randomises within each branch, so across the whole tree it is still uniform (does that make sense?).

i'd like to be able to apply the Rnd across the whole tree, so each horn at the end of each branch is randomly and independently rotated.

[Walli]

first of all, for testing purpose I would reduce number of segments and increase the values, that helps to see the effect better. Because afaik each element should look different and a short test with horn inside phyllotaxis seems to confirm this.
So what happens when you increate those values?

[SandroS]

So what happens when you increate those values?

it changes the direction of each 'segment' as expected within that component, but it changes it the same way on every branch end, so they all look the same from branch to branch.

so it looks like the Rnd parameter only randomises locally and then repeats that Rnd for each component, whereas i'm hoping there's a way to randomise globally. that's what i thought the difference between Rnd and Rndabs is but it seems they both do the same thing.

hope i'm explaining myself

[Walli]

rndabs is just positive values, absolut random value. Basically the same as rnd, just returns positive values only.

I attached a horn with rnd on rotation x and you can see that some bend more upwards, some downwards, some sidewards - so each is different here. How did you multiply the horn?

[SandroS]

thanks Walli but i haven't explained myself yet (a bit more patience please )

i understand how to randomise as you have shown. but now try this - put the 'plant' that you created at the end of some branches of a single tree. you will see that the same pattern of 'randomness' if repeated.

you can hopefully see in my example that the red horns have random rotation as in your example but on each branch they are all identical. i am trying to break this so that the random parameter is a different seed for each branch.

[Walli]

ah, okay, you meant this structure itself. I guess there´s not much you could do...There is a function (either rec or chdrn) that was thought to do something like that, but I think it never made it from the SGI version itno Xfrog 3.5. You can find the function in the editor, but it has no effect.

Thats something you would need a variation object, but thats only available in Xfrog4. You could use one of the deformers and try to get more variations that way. Handwork, but it works

[SandroS]

thanks Walli. shame it can't be done parametrically. it would be a very simple way to add great variation from branch to branch and would solve about 9/10 of my wish list.

Thats something you would need a variation object, but thats only available in Xfrog4

Xfrog 4?

[Walli]

yes, there are several tasks that indeed could easily be solver paramtrical, at least if you dare to dive into functions. But right now thats not possible I fear.

Xfrog4 - actually we are already at Xfrog5 The plugin versions for Maya and Cinema4D